When you're talking about Linux, it's okay to say that it's "open source".

It's okay to say that it's "free software".

It's okay to call it "GNU/Linux", "Linux", or to mess up its name.

It's okay to refer to it as "the one with the friendly penguin".

Part of RMS' legacy has been an incessant obsession with terminology and pedantry, overshadowing far more important shared objectives which are fundamentally emancipatory in nature.

Pedantry is not activism; it is alienating, not emancipatory.

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@eloquence why be focused on activism, why not just making cool software that's Foss?

@jordan31 @eloquence To an extent, you're right kind of right. Deeds, not words. If you want more free software, just build it.

On the other hand, after you've done the deed, I think you should also talk about it so people know you had a particular political motive with that deed.

I wish the FSF had done more deeds. It should be the FSF Summer of Code, not GSoC. It should be FSFHub, not Github; FSF-OS not Android.

Under RMS's leadership, the FSF just has had many words and few deeds.

@JordiGH @eloquence see I never understood why it must have political stigma attached to it. Can't some just produce Foss software because they want others to see the code, help maintain, and feel like their giving back to a cool group of like minded people?
I can care less about peoples political motivation for a software, I'd rather know their road map.

I do agree about the FSF needing to push more deeds. They could help promote other programs or host their own.

@jordan31 Politics aren't a stigma. Everything is politics.

Politics are like accents: if you think someone doesn't have them, that's just because they have the same as yours.

@JordiGH no, not everything is political. I tend to steer away from software that is made "political" by the dev/owner. I could care less how you vote or your beliefs, I'm just needing an RSS reader.

Again, I'm not downloading a program to support someone else's political crap, I'm just in need of a open source version of xyz program.

@jordan31 That's a political stance. You're against software that cares about software freedom. You have a position. You don't want to be told that software should be free. You think that shouldn't be said. Those are your politics: be quiet, you don't want to hear it.

@JordiGH that's actually not a political stance. That's just me not caring about the devs political stance.

@jordan31 If you don't care, then we'll keep saying it and you'll still be happy.

Deal?

@JordiGH I don't think you got it but OK. I never said not to say it, I just could care less. People still talk all day long about Foss and their political ideas behind it. Be my guest. Up to me if I ignore it or use the software or simply unplug the internet and say FCK it.

@jordan31 Okay, we'll keep saying it. I'll keep saying it. We all deserve free software and we should have it and we should keep building it.

We should not need non-free software. We should not have a reason to use non-free software.

And I'll keep submitting patches or building free software whenever I can.

@jordan31 And of course you can ignore because you don't care. But if you don't care you can also hear me, because hey, it's the same to you. It's irrelevant what I say as long as I build software, right?

@jordan31 Sorry, I missed a word. "Of course you can ignore me because you don't care".

@JordiGH @jordan31 "Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone." - rms

@jordan31 @JordiGH Sure, just seemed relevant. I agree with it. Free software is about changing the values of society, from the very beginning.

@JordiGH that's good, you should. Its how the system works and allows me to use foss that has less bugs.

@jordan31 @JordiGH > not everything is political

What is not political, again ? Tell me, I'm curious.

politics, free software 

@jordan31 @JordiGH The activist that invented RSS was killed because of his political view. RSS is not apolitical. It's imply a decentralised vision of the distribution of information. It seems you have a problem with the definition of political. Gnu licence is political, compagny owned program as well. having an open source version of a program is political

@jordan31 @JordiGH @eloquence

"Can't some just produce Foss software because they want others to see the code, help maintain, and feel like their giving back to a cool group of like minded people?"

What you just described is anti-capitalist. The very idea of collectively owned and maintained services is political by its anti-capitalist nature. If you work on FOSS then you're doing anti-capitalist praxis whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

@jordan31 @JordiGH @eloquence

"Can't some just produce [product or service] because they want others to [use product or service], help maintain, and feel like their giving back to a cool group of like minded people?"

That's communism baby!

@JordiGH @jordan31 @eloquence And then somebody says that they're doing it to "Further the Kingdom of God" (in the end, a political stance), and some people think that this also implies that this must mean that they're against same-sex marriage (which may be true for some, false for others) or whatever else they consider a horrible political position: Instant drama. (For example, https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html made the news much more than it warranted IMHO)

So the only way to be safe would be to explain all politics all the time. That's tiresome for all involved and it likely means that people will focus on the differences, forming social bubbles and reducing cooperation.

Meanwhile proprietary software continues to be built without that friction because enterprises can paper over smaller (and even larger) political differences by establishing a "don't ask, don't tell" framework for politics, because they want to get shit done, and they pay enough to make people follow that policy.

@patrick Oh, proprietary software has plenty of politics: it's okay to spy on people, it's okay to control people via software, we need more ads and more data collection from people, shut up and do what the people with money tell you to do, you don't wanna starve, do you?

These are political positions too.

Politics are just opinions about how we should organise our society.

@patrick Btw, been meaning to say: I really love your sheep avatar.

@patrick @JordiGH @eloquence the don't ask don't tell and getting stuff done sounds more appealing and productive at this point.

@patrick @JordiGH @eloquence @jordan31@theres.life omg is this sqlite thing real or an april fools?

@JordiGH @robey @patrick @eloquence it was in response to calla for sqlite to have a code of conduct. i don’t know whether this part is true, but what he claomed was that since he’s the only developer, having a code of conduct was kind of absurd. so he put up a statement about how he conducts himself.

@JordiGH @jordan31 @eloquence For what it’s worth, they’ve been looking to host a modern forge since not very long ago. Not sure if they’ve got enough money to pay hundreds of students for coding every year though… and same for phones, really; it’s hard for me to assess what the FSF could or could not have achieved in that field, but the efforts of Canonical, OpenMoko, Purism and KDE leave me with some doubts.

@jordan31 @eloquence free software is inherently political

freedom is a political goal, not a technical one

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